By AuxBeacon News Staff
[Editor’s Note: We received this member “find” on Civil Air Patrol’s membership loss as detailed by a National Public Affairs Officer. CAP Col Stan Skrabut has missed a few reasons why members are leaving, to include aircraft and safety violations, sexual predators, a depressing culture of reprisal and high profile suicides.]
To: AuxBeacon Editors
My squadron commander was speaking to us during a recent meeting and told us to ignore reports on Skip Munger’s News of the Force and on the AuxBeacon news-site and the others. He stated that CAP was not losing members and we should not believe the “lies”. While he was saying this, one of our wise-cracking mission pilots was looking at a video on his laptop in which Col Stan Skrabut and Lt Col Darin Ninness were confessing just the opposite.
Col Skrabut mentions the ego and reprisal problem, but doesn’t mention the pedophiles, aircraft accidents, and reprisal terminations of those who reported crimes, fraud and other safety problems concealed from the public.
You can find the long-winded 1 hour and 17 minute video at [redacted, see below] and at the 3 minute mark Skrabut clearly states that CAP members are leaving. These two [redacted] love to hear themselves talk, but could have saved us much time with a simple bullet list, which we have prepared for you.
Why CAP Members are Leaving:
According to these two [redacted]:
1) A large number of members leave because they feel their time and talents were not needed or valued.
• Lack of a good CAP membership orientation
• False Expectations
• Not trustworthy
2) Some members do not have enough time to commit for CAP because of work and other commitments.
• Overwhelm members with too many tasks
• Lack of meaningful positions and tasks
• Lack of good training
• No vision
3) We have some members who are poor leaders and are driving people away.
• Egotistical civilian/military dictator style leaders
• No accountability
• Unable to resolve conflicts
• Not respected or treated fairly
4) Some members joined because their child was a cadet, now the child has left the CAP.
• Lack of meaningful interests, activities and events
• Program is not rewarding
• Lack of respect and core values
• Emergency Services cliques
• Nepotism
5) Some members joined because of the promise of flying, but slowed by training and paperwork.
• Members not actively involved
• Lack of a good Level 1 orientation and good mentors
• Lack of flight opportunities
• Too much red tape
6) Over time, a member’s interest in CAP may diminish to the point he or she is no longer interested in CAP.
• Ignoring member feedback and comments
• Fear of change
• Not attending to needs of the members
• Lack of good communication with members
• Lack of transparency and the silent treatment
7) CAP wasn’t what they thought it would be.
• Told of “grand stories” and other lies when recruited
• Hire slow, fire fast
• Lack of missions
• Very political and rampant favoritism
• Unsafe environment and negative impact on the youth
8) Many members leave because they are bored due to the lack of activities and missions.
• Endless training and qualifications that are rarely or never used
• Lack of a unit plan and meeting focus
• Refusal to listen/apply member feedback
• Not utilizing members appropriating where they can benefit the unit
While much of this is true, the idea that these two believe that we should or would spend 1.3 hours of our time to watch them read this to us is also a big part of the problem. That would be in addition to the CAP pedophiles, CAP safety failures and the CAP suicides.
I have a feeling that this article is based on Senior Membership, but some of the negatives listed happen on the Cadet side. They are are even encouraged by the Senior Members at times. If CAP want to show that they are still relevant and pay respects to their beginnings as Civil Air Defense Services, who were unsung heroes of WW2, they need clean their attitude and have respect for all members, not just the ones who promote fast, bring in the most Cadets, or bring in the most money. Everyone does their part, so show it.
Where are they hiding the 65,000 plus members the CAP claims?
“September’s end of month statistics blew the previous month out of the water, gang.
Basically, we have more cadets & seniors in CAP today than at any time since we started keeping the monthly statistics in January of 2000. And while I can’t precisely compare to a monthly figure, we haven’t had this many cadets in CAP going back to the end of 1988 (we had 30,505 then) and this many seniors since 1989 (40,141).
Our retention rates are up as well.
Whatever you’re doing out there in the units, keep doing it!
Lt Col Ninness, HQ CAP/Recruiting Team”
I concur. I quit last week. The first year, all I did was train, recruit, train, recruit, train, blah, blah, blah. SAR, what SAR? Yea, stupid me for wasting my time and money.
No Orientation, I am a self starter, online training, did it without anyone telling me to do so. Seems it has evolved into a “Groom children for the Military JrROTC” program, we just need adults for the driving and wrangling. You will get no orientation, and frankly, I have never seen a plane or hanger. Guy who joined with me is leaving. He saw it before me, stupid me for investing my training and uniform.
Anyone in the CAP that has been in a while soon realizes that the membership number CAP uses nationally is far from the number of ACTIVE members. The vast majority of members have quit or are just riding out the year til they drop from the role. And we can’t forget all the honorary or empty position members such as congressional, educators, war veterans, sponsors, and more.
The last time I waded into the ops database it listed about 300+ mission rated pilots. Even the most generous estimates wouldn’t give us more than 6k troops to throw at ES. We have no desire to clear our rolls of dead weight because of the income from our “ghost members” as well as the numbers we like to throw at Congress and the public.
The stock text we plop on the bottom of every PAO press release invariably mentions the “more than 63,000 members nationwide” line. However, we all know that has little to do with any of the end strength we can apply towards any missions.
So, therefore, CAP’s claim of 63,000 members is a flat out lie.
Take note Air Force….The USAF Explorers may be a better alternative to the corrupt CAP. They have a clear cut mission to train youth as pilots and aircrew. They need some tweaking, but I see huge potential.
Our squadron commander announced at our meeting last night he’s finally done. The wing had asked if anyone was interested a month ago when it was first announced that a replacement was sought. No one applied. So the wing gave us an ultimatium that if no one steps up, the squadron is history.
Got me thinking about commanders. I thought about the squadron job but I am no good because of my attitude. My distrust of CAP and wing and region is off the chart and I really don’t want to recruit and play the numbers game. I don’t want to spend my time raising money. Several of our other semiactive members are parents and they want no part of the reports and demands and inspections. Our commander was blunt and told us about the email demands from the wing boss, the personal funding of most of our events and awards, the endless demands for reports and then the inspections. He stayed for his kid and for other kids but he has finally worn out.
That is the life of a squadron commander, lots of reward seeing kids do well but lots of demands from wing and lots of money spent.
The wing boss seems to be a good job even for someone mildly incompetent and arrogant and he can pick staff from friends and squadrons because everyone seems to need to serve to get promoted or earn ribbons. Mostly the staff does OK but they are always asking and asking and asking and rarely get out and actually help. It would be interesting to hear from some former wing commanders and honest comments because we are hearing that it is very difficult in some of our wings to get good people to step up when the jobs are open.
It is plain to see from our wing that favorites are favored and money is spent not for the program but for fancy travel and nice dinners.
We will never see our region commander and I wonder how he copes with all of the unmet demands made of us in the trenches. We apparently need to recruit more and make our numbers look good and we only see photos of our region people when they are at dinners or national events. I am sure our squaddron will be dinged because none of us want to travel to the region conference and make him look good.
I hope he has at least one or two good staffers who the region king can share close deteails with and cope with all of us malcontents. We hear of the expensive hotel rooms and the various meeetings and dinners and that is how he copes with a command level that seems to be irrelevant. We see some courses and some events but no one really cares if we comply or attend with region demands. We get no dinners or travel or even visits or even asked for our opinion on things and it is just comply or else.
Now our commander will be gone and what can they really do to the rest of us? Cut our pay? We have no real purpose except to have a cadet program and most of our cadets get discouraged by wing and region anyway and quit before they even get past their second milesstone.
Sometimes I wonder what wing or region commanders even talk about with their most intimate staff in order to cope with their nonsense. Do they even care that we don’t care or do they just want to look good. Sometimes I wonder why one would want to be a colonel and be at that level because wearing the uniform is not really any thing in real life and our awards just look pretty and mean pretty much nothing except that you spent money to attend something or sat through some boring class.
So what is really in it for them? Do they have close social friends that help them cope with stuff? Is it an ego thing to claim to be great leaders?
Oh well, the story will continue as we look for more members to con into paying dues. How many dues pay for a trip to a national meeting? If we get lots of new members can we send more region and wing staff to nice dinners?
The solution is to let the squadron get shut down and spend your energies on a more useful organization. Stop feeding the beast and it will die. They want to cut their own membership base down and play stupid power games? Let them. They’ve been doing it for years and they’ve been declining for years.
We’re all intimate with state and region level corruption in CAP. The only solution to fix it is for good people to stick it out and become staff. But, that won’t happen. There’s too much institutional enertia of incompetence and corruption. They manipulate good intentions of good people to puff their ego, line their wallet,and control people.
Whenever a competent, good person starts trying to fix stuff, they resort to threats, stonewalling and abuse. They’re carnies, they need a line of fresh suckers to keep going. If they see you learning to beat their game, they hussle you off. Competent well meaning people are a threat to them. Ergo, constant recruitment.
Call your congressman and ask to have CAP defunded by the DoD. let the sqdn die. CAP cannot be salvaged without starting over from ground zero.
For ya’ll that don’t read CAPTalk…. This may explain why CAP national HQ’s lies about the CAP membership numbers. 57,000 to 60,000 members is complete hogwash. My wing barely has a hundred members. All they want us to do at wing is recruit, recruit and recruit. We recruit, and they quit. They push us to recruit again, and they quit. We ask for data and we get the cold shoulder.
Today, MajTbird made a great point about CAP national’s “secret squirrel” tasking going on about CAP member exit surveys…
“[CAP] It is an organization fully-funded by taxpayers and member dues. There are zero monies going to CAP that are not supplied through taxes or dues. I don’t want to sound all legalistic–I’m not–but that’s our information. Obviously personal or national security data isn’t. And I don’t want that data. I just want to know what’s going on in my organization, unfiltered. Why, for example, would they not share the responses from the recent survey of member pilots? What could possibly be so secretive about that? Not sure why that would spook anyone. But it sure isn’t forthcoming and I was told firmly that it would not be shared. And what’s wrong–seriously–with sharing exit data from members who left CAP with anyone who wants to see it and not just with wing commanders? Jeez, maybe one of the 60,000 members who isn’t a wing commander or a privileged data recipient may have some good ideas to improve retention. What a concept.
Thus, being we’re members and taxpayers I think the more appropriate question might be to them: What is CAP’s reasoning for not sharing performance, survey, financial and asset use data with us? It’s not a need thing (and who gets to decide need anyway?).
Broader question: Why are so many in CAP so irritated by questions? Seriously, why?”
Where’d all the good people go?
They’ve gone away. That’s where they’ve gone. They’ve simply gone away.
And the dirty little secret?
No one in Civil Air Patrol cares…
To the Board of Governors and Maj Gen Mark Smith…
FIX THE PROGRAM, OR CONTINUE TO LOSE VALUABLE MEMBERS. It’s that simple.
“I don’t know if this is the right place to post this…”
[Admin: Send us a private contact detailing where and with who you experienced this. This will be kept private to protect you and them. We cannot give you advice without understanding more of your situation. Each family is different and some have the temperament and resources for the fight and some do not.]
http://auxbeacon.org/contact/
I am approaching my 35th year in CAP, and I find these comments to be more of a “bitch at CAP” list. Yes, we as an organization have difficulties that are both unique to each situation and yet, are the same. The CAP depends on the MEMBERS to make it work, and if all you do is bitch about it, it will never change. Get the hint?
You seem to have missed the point that many former CAP members have followed the proper procedures in communicating their concerns over sex, pilot safety and taxpayer abuse with unqualified commanders. Then, per the requirements of CAP’s own regulations, they filed Inspector General complaints with CAP and with the US Air Force only to have some summarily dismissed along with coordinated retaliation and defamation and discredit the whistleblower. CAP has confessed this in the release of their own Membership Action Review Board/Panel reports. The site admins have made them available to Congress and to journalists.
Dues paying CAP volunteers are just being exploited by a very corrupt command club that is stinking rotten to the core. If you cannot see this, then you are an enabler.
CAP employees and members requesting assistance on Sky Graffiti in May of 2009 or here and now should never be portrayed as “all you do is bitch about it” kind of people. Those wo/men? alerted all of us to just how CRIMINAL the Civil Air Patrol and its abuse had become. They told anyone, caring and courageous enough to step-up, exactly what ACTION would be required.
“Most of the National staff members and Board of Governors including the current National Commander are guilty of many criminal acts. If someone was brave enough to expose them, they would all get prison time.
Many wonder why none of this criminal behavior is [] exposed, the fact is that most fear the retaliation and are afraid they might get setup. National parallels organized crime like a mafia.
If you want to help the CAP members, more people need to speak out against National until everyone takes notice. National exposure would end the corruption, or it will continue indefinitely. Please speak out & not just on here, if you have been mistreated or you know about a cover-up in CAP, your voices will be heard if more people stand up and unite together.”
http://auxbeacon.org/cap-nhq-employee-begs-for-help/
The fulfillment of that request, Patrick Cross, is AuxBeacon and those CAP members who benefited from turning a blind-eye to cries and suicides will be exposed as complicit and derelict in their duty to their children and their country.
I’m soon to be a certificated student pilot.
Today’s date, I heard a CAP plane tell a controller he was looking for an active ELT and wished to climb from 4000′ to 9000′ as he was not getting the signal. This a week after published end date of a Jun 2017 major training session. We had thunderstorms the area with very strong gusts the night before and I reasoned perhaps a plane was overdue or reported missing. Obviously, a chocked, but not tied down plane could have been flipped and actuated the ELT or it may have been hard landing ect ect.
In my attempt to call CAP locally to see if they could provide any information on the search or outcome, no answer on the phone. I called another wing and same thing, leave a message. Headquarters at Maxwell, same thing. As a civilian and soon to be pilot, I’m not impressed at all. Contact phone numbers are hidden on websites and it does seem to be a secret organization from the layman’s viewpoint.
Be safe!!
If anything ever happens to me PLEASE DO NOT ALLOW THE CAP TO PARTICIPATE IN THE RESCUE because:
1. I will want to be rescued
2. I will want anyone (with the exception of the CAP) who can find me immediately to do so
3. I do not want my name sullied by the CAP
CAP is a failing agency and waste of taxpayer dollars. The corruption and cronyism is so evident and so blatant and it is ignored by region and HQ. Take for example the Rhode Island Wing. The wing is comprised of social misfits, non professionals, non business men and with few exception, people with no life accomplishments. They pride themselves on bossing around children and retaliating against anyone who wants to make the wing a better organization. For unaccomplished people like Richard Hill and Will Stranahan, CAP is a place that they gather respect from youth with no life experience. As a former member who was targeted for political reasons, I have watched as all of the accomplished educated members walked out and never returned. Coupled with the fact that the physical characteristics of the command staff clearly suggests life long poor decisions. Obesity is common place, lack of social etiquette is all to evident, and lack of established goals is the norm. After being gone for 2 years I attended the Quonset Air show this weekend and now unfortunately, even the cadets look like misfit kids that have nothing else to do. They all look as if they are traumatized by “superiors” and the wing continues to get smaller and smaller. CAP is not fun for these kids. CAP needs to remember that these are kids, not soldiers and there needs to be a balance. As a parent, I could never allow my children to be part of this organization in any fashion. One look at the “leaders” will remove any doubt as to whether or not this agency is in the toilet.
Rob Cote
Former DO RI WING
Well said and right on point. The CAP is no longer needed since the corruption is incredibly vast. Been there, once held several national positions and have seen it all like you.
One such example comes to mind (and there are plenty), improper relationships involving sex with cadets and adult members is common place. The majority are covered up, not only by the CAP, but by the CAP-USAF. I can recall 7 to 8 leaders in the CAP today that have been involved with cadets while the USAF has looked the other way. You report it and you are done. They don’t care about the youth.
Mrs. John [Redacted] is right on that it is a “sick organization.” And we the tax payers have to foot the bill year after year for these sickos.
Congress needs to get their heads out their “photo ops” asses. It is beyond repair.
All this heavy duty recruiting around the nation and the numbers never change.
Part of a posting on CAPTalk.net:
“This will be my last post. I am resigning from the Civil Air Patrol. There is still much good about this program and I will miss those things. However, the politics, and a sell out, just sealed it for me.”
We imagine CrAP is going to see a lot more of this mindset… the lights are on, the truth is heard, and understood, and the member makes the informed decision that CrAP is simply not for them… they have seen too much crap in CAP.
I left CAP as a Major, with 30 years service, 14 of it as a Squadron Commander. I was a threat to the unit commander I was assigned to, so he and his little private club organized a faked up charge in the Cadet Protection Policy, took a year of my life, cost me my eyesight due to blood pressure, and in the end I was reinstated because I made so much noise all the way to NHQ. Once reinstated, I told them all to stuff CAP up their ass. I know where all the bodies are buried, and am working on an expose book. CAP is no longer necessary, satellites, police helicopters and real SAR people have replaced it. CAP is a joke.
Just wondering. Maybe Skrabut can make it happen?
CAP has a leadership problem and I believe it is because the good old folk at the top have made the organization so incestful that no one really wants to be a commander. Unless you are wealthy or in the good old club you are going to be hassled until you just give up and quit.
Bored at work I started looking at commander biographies. Lots and lots of military ones and these REAL commanders have field experience,leadership experience, and mission experience. They just didn’t suddenly appear and take command.
But try to find a CAP “command” bio? Not there. So I started just looking at photos of wing commanders and national staff and region commanders and vice commanders. SHOCKING!
No wonder they don’t publish a bio for anyone to see. They literally have no leadership experience. If you google these people they are mostly has been commanders. Or they buy or brown nose their way into command. Very few even have business experience and their finance expertise is limited to having their accountant’s number on speed dial.
So here we have people leading an organization who have no leadership credentials. They wear wings because they “has been” a pilot and did a form 5 but none are probably even mission current or ever even mission qualified. Few to none have ever served a FULL TERM as a squadron or group commander.
Few to none have ever served at an encampment or a special activity. They have no CAP experience with our critical missions. Some have money (inherited?) or are smart and maybe even live off of trust funds. Leadership in business? They supervise NO ONE! They have no street smarts. They have no people skills. They have no financial skills.
BUT they put on a good show.
And because of this leadership void, they drive out competence. A competent squadron or wing commander is hard to find because incompetence breeds and attracts incompetence.
I cannot even imagine a military commander or vice commander not having relevant mission experience. Yet we have region and wing commanders and vice commanders who have apparently never been on a mission or have just visited an encampment and thus are qualified.
One “commander” tried to tell us how to track cadet achievements using a spreadsheet. OMG! What that said to us in squadrons is that he has no clue about the current online ability available in eservices. Another “commander” tried to argue about how to run a mission and that “commander” had never even been on a mission staff or participated in any event longer than showing up to shake hands. It was an awakening.
So why don’t our wing and region commanders and their senior staff publish biographies for members of their “command” to read. It would be eye opening for members to realize what a sham it is to have these people in “command.” Honesty and integrity are just plain lacking. It seems like when you pin on the birds, you gain instant expertise in all aspects of CAP. And because you are in “command” everything you now say is the absolute truth?
I listen to these tin birds make stuff up on the fly and just tell lie after lie. If they at least posted an honest bio we’d be better able to ferret out the BS from reality.
So, Skrabut, how about more openness and honesty. Are the birds afraid that we’ll see through their wall of ineptness and realize that our “commanders” don’t know diddly?
These CAP news sites that have popped up in response to Vazquez and Carr allow the recently recruited New Bloods to see the history of abuse in Civil Air Patrol. Early discovery prevents them from becoming emotionally invested in the program. This is unlike the drooling hopefuls of prior decades who are now at the mercy of the leadership.
I can tell you why I “left,” with my own “bullet points.”
I was forced out by a commander who did not like the fact that I had a disability and that I took time off from his little fiefdom to take care of a wife afflicted with a potentially fatal illness.
CAP’s disability policy is not worth the paper it is printed on. I tried to use it and was told by General Vazquez in a letter that my claim was baseless.
The Form 2B hangs over every member’s head like the Sword of Damocles.
CAP’s IG “system” works depending on how in bed you are in with the Wing IG staff.
There is little to no direct oversight – or connection to – the Air Force compared to when I joined in 1993.
Favouritism and the Good Ole Boy/Girl Network is still firmly entrenched, despite the rah-rahing over on CAPTalk.
My “commander” refused to meet with me directly, one-on-one, to address my concerns.
I took the problems “up the chain,” only to be told there was nothing that could be done.
Once you get on the “branded” list in CAP, you can forget about any advancement opportunities.
17 years of service ends up not amounting to a hill of beans.
If (like PsychoCAP, above) you have an investigatible case, we’re happy to help. Give us all the details you can (who, what, where, when and why) and names and contact information of the people involved and we’ll get on it. Your identity will always be protected. If you need help, contact us on our website, newsoftheforce.org, or call (813) 541-2452. The Air Force does read our stories.
In the case of cadet abuse or statutory rape, all states have a child abuse hotline where you can make a complaint and remain anonymous. Anybody can make such a report. In Florida, the number to call is 1-800-96-ABUSE. Protect our children – make the call.
It is often impossible to remain anonymous in reporting these sordid activities. Cadets receive free access to costly training as a result of their cooperation.
Tubarks would love to take a new senior member to yon virtual tavern after a long day of simulated searching and questing.
And the coverup and PAO spin continues. who cares how long Skrabut has been in CAP? who cares that he cares about CAP? insulting for him to imply that others don’t have experience or care. he is part of the problem. rather than lecture us in a self serving video why not dig in and make something happen?
in our squadron meeting monday we were told by our minion commander we had to find solutions to dropping membership. we need to recruit more. the wing cadet program is in the sewer. and somehow it is not a leadership problem it is a recruiting problem. wing told us via our commander minion we need to recruit and set up booths and spread the word.
we have no missions. we train and train and train and promise and promise and promise and nothing happens. a month ago the wing ops and es staff came and did a dog and pony show. when we asked if we could go out and contact local officials we were told no and to stay in our lane that they would handle it.
but they are not! nothing has happened for YEARS. the wing king is just hanging on so he will get his permanent eagles and some end of term award. the new region commander apparently can only flex his bird and fire people.
there is NO program. the promises ARE false. some of us in the lower ranks actually do care but our hands are handcuffed and we are told to just recruit.
to do what? sit and smile and salute and call the room to attention for what? fakery? a few very overweight lt colonels to cannot even get off their fat a$$ to do anything but tell us to shape up in an inspection or threaten us if we ask questoins?
it is all about leadership!!!! some facebook meme said if you take care of your employees first they will take good care of your customers. apparently CAP meme is to take care of the upper command first and screw the members and screw the customers. there is NOTHING for us to do. our cadets are BORED with the promises.
hey skrabut read or watch your own BS and listen to the party line you keep pushing. you are a colonel and you are wanting to move up in the CAP so why don’t YOU speak up in your inner circles and make something happen?
why doesn’t our fearless leadership actually talk to members and respond to concerns? they just want to end their term with their eagles and stars and screw the dues paying people.
leadership is a joke. nhq and wing and region staff exist to feather their own nest, get fat, get awards and tell us how incompetent we all are.
and if we complain we get demoted or kicked out. nice way to treat volunteers. insult us inspect us criticize us promise us great things and blame us when we ask when these great things will happen. leadership has no integrity and has no caring for members. my job as a lower rank minion is to just smile and pay dues and buy expensive uniforms and recruit more people to drink the tainted water. skrabut you are a joke and poster boy for what the problem with CAP really is.
The truth of the matter is that CAP is not retaining 100% of the members that join. I would challenge you to find an organization that does. The purpose of the presentation was to highlight the main reasons why members were not staying with the organization. This information was taken from exit surveys. I do not believe in hiding important information that can help the organization. Lt Col Ninness and I thought this was important to discuss, so we took to YouTube to do so. Hopefully, this awareness could help to address some of the issues. Could we have pushed the information out in a bulleted list as above? Certainly. However, as a member since 1975, who is passionate about the program, we choose to give a long video presentation. The great thing YouTube is that if you do not wish to watch a 1.3-hour presentation, you do not have to.
The PAO spin needs to STOP and turn to resignation. My CAP unit commander was involved in a statutory rape that has been covered up. I am disgusted with those who remain in Civil Air Patrol when I know of the quality people who have been driven out through coordinated lies and other defamation.
Aux Beacon has not yet covered the story out of Kansas that demonstrates just how low CAP leadership is sinking. Your staff may be in the air and unaware of this, so here is the news link for your readers and for congress during this legislative month. Thank you for giving us a place to anonymously share all of our evidence.